CLEVELAND -- People are seeing red when it comes to Cleveland's traffic cameras.

Sue Faber: "I always thought we were always innocent until proven guilty."

Chief Investigator Duane Pohlman: The Fabers in Massillon got a ticket even though they weren't even in Cleveland.

Faber: "Now, I find it's guilty until I can prove I'm innocent." Part 1 | Part 2 Pohlman: On the photo, you can't even see the plate clearly, but that didn't stop the city from sending a ticket to the Fabers truck.

Clearly it is a car in the photo and the Fabers have a pickup.

Pohlman: Chris Butler of Case Western Reserve University said that if you know the distance and you know the time, you can calculate the speed.

The professor proved our own 5 On Your Side videographer Dave Hatala was not speeding.

Butler: "Given what we measured, it looks more reasonable that the dark car was going 48 miles per hour not the white van."

Normally, this would be the part where I would tell you how many cases have been bungled, and I would point you to documents that prove that.

Pohlman: 5 On Your Side requested the records six months ago, during the hot days of August, and we still don't have them.

We sent a flurry of public records requests to City Hall in August, asking for access to every ticket issued in 2006 at red-light cameras.

5 On Your side made endless calls and sent dozens of e-mails.

Pohlman: This is the longest I've waited for public records -- ever.

Well, what's expected usually, the law says that within five business days you have to provide either the documents or some kid of response

In December, E.W. Scripps attorney Dave Giles, agreed to get some of the records -- even though the city insisted we pay more than $900.

In an e-mail that quickly followed, Giles asked that information to be placed on disc to avoid such a huge charge.

We still don't have the records.

It has dragged out for a significant amount of time for fairly basic information.

Now, Cleveland Mayor Frank Jackson, who defends the red-light camera program, blames our attorney for the delays.

Jackson: "Your attorney agreed that records that was available were acceptable to him."

Pohlman: But even if we paid, which we won't, our money wouldn't go to the city of Cleveland. It would go to a private company ACS logo from Google images.

That's right ACS, a private company based in Dallas, Texas, manages the red-light cameras of Cleveland and makes big money doing it -- $3.6 million a year.

And ACS keeps the red light records and the mayor defends the system.

Pohlman: "Why are we allowing a business to do this?"

Jackson: "Governments have vendors all over the place that have records about how they do business and when people ask for those records the government usually goes to the vendors and it's not unusual."

Pohlman: So far, we've only gotten these court records -- delivered last month -- showing all the hearings where people contested their tickets from red-light cameras.

It shows a surprising number. More than one out of four people who took their case to municipal court last year won.

Hatala: "Becomes pretty clear that it wasn't your vehicle that was speeding."

Pohlman:Hatala won his case after he proved the city got the wrong car in the wrong lane.

We've gotten hundreds of calls and emails from you telling us the city needs to stop the red light cameras.

Hatala: "I think we should get rid of them."

So far, the mayor has a three-word answer.

Jackson: "No. I won't. "